A Deep Dive Into Stoicism and The Fine Lines Between Being Stoic and Optimistic
If you were an American Prisoner of war (POW) in World War II or Korea, you had a 70% chance to come back with PTSD. Coming home from the Vietnam War, even without being in prison during your tour, meant a 30% chance of returning with PTSD based on the criteria from the DS M3. But when Charlie Plumb was shot down in Vietnam in 1967 and imprisoned at the infamous, hellish Hanoi Hilton, his chance of coming back with PTSD was much, much lower - frequency low, according to war historians.
The Mitchell Center, which conducted the longest survey on POWs from the Vietnam War, puts a number at about 4% to come back with PTSD for a POW, whereas infantrymen on the ground in that same war or POWs from past wars had 10X that or higher. And it wasn't because the Hanoi Hilton was soft on its POWs; Officers in the Vietcong Army would eventually face tribunals and confess to the fact that they were using meat hooks, leg irons, and extended periods of isolation as torture. The argument was, so what? The South Koreans did it too, which means the rest of us are still left scratching our heads over the impossibly low PTSD rates. But Charlie Plumb guesses differently because while other men from other Wars might have given up after being isolated and torture for years, Charlie was in Hell's Hole attending biology class. That's not a pet name, either - The Hanoi Hilton's real name translates to Hell's Hole.
This is where Charlie Plumb and a small group of POWs would plan and execute temporary, mental escapes. They would build lesson plans in their minds based on classes they had taken in college. They then would teach each other over several months, sometimes even years, everything they knew like biology, arithmetic and even sailing…anything to keep their minds busy and make them feel like a collective. How thorough were these classes taught in Hell's Hole? The courses Charlie and the other POWs sat through were eventually honored by the University of Maryland. And anyone who took Charlie's course on sailing, the class he taught while locked in leg irons, would later tell Charlie they could sail on the seas once they were in a boat stateside. So, a 4% PTSD rate because in a world out of their control, the POWs who survived the Hanoi Hilton never gave up control of their minds.
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In America, we adopt philosophical beliefs and identities like we're picking lipstick brands- things that would normally take a lifetime to master, such as mindfulness, zen, and ‘live, laugh, love’ Stoicism. It's a personality and dormant. Besides, why meditate for years when we could buy a little Buddha statue for the coffee table or put a sign in our bedroom? Back in 2014, Ryan Holiday’s self-help book called The Obstacles In the Way became the new, stoic Bible for Silicon Valley CEOs who grew bored of the art of war and the power of now .Or, as Forbes put it, Stoicism and Ryan’s book became the new hotness. The website called ‘The Daily Stoic’ even sells coins and coffee table books, proving that the author really knows the audience he’s catering to.
So, can you buy a two-thousand-year-old philosophy like it's a Pier One side table? That's the question we are asking today about Stoicism. Most of us will never have our absolute limits tested like Charlie Plumb. Now, how do we tap into the philosophy of Stoicism without it becoming a rent on identity?
Myth One: Over 37 million Americans take antidepressants, and we lead the world in painkiller consumption. So how much of our ‘live, laugh, love’ is pure facade?
Joe: When we use the word stoicism, is there any character that jumps out in your mind?
Todd: I always think of modern-day stoics. Who stands out to you in history?
Joe: I thought of fictional characters like Spock. I assumed that's what stoic was until we started reading about this. I started realizing that I don't think Stoicism is about not having emotions and was mistaken. I thought Stoicism just meant that you didn't react.
Todd: I always thought it was a person who was just ultra-negative and never believed things would work out.
Joe: So, why is Charlie Plumb considered a stoic or at least his approach to being tortured stoic?
Todd: Charlie Plumb is stoic because even though he didn't have hope, he was able to foster an inner calm to settle down and kind of free his mind.
Joe: Is there a stoic Bible to follow in Charlie's footsteps if we wanted to? I'm getting a sense that there isn't a specific Bible or one stoic book to follow. The people who follow Stoicism, this is like a personality for them. Do you want to talk a little bit about the stoicism tenets, like the things that make up Stoicism?
Todd: Yes, please. I've heard one from a Ted Talk by Tim Ferriss, and he says true stoics will take a situation and figure out every single way it can be ruined and then figure how to solve that problem for each one.
Joe: Yes, that is one of the central tenants, premeditating the worst. This comes from Seneca, a stoic philosopher, and it's the notion that you are not brooding on the bad; You're envisioning what could happen and trying to figure out how you would react. It is knowing yourself and your emotions. That's a huge part of Stoicism.
Memento Mori is the absolute backbone of Stoicism. Memento Mori is remembering that you are mortal. The old story is that in Rome, when somebody would win a great battle, they'd come back and parade while people threw roses and thanked them for conquering part of Gaul. However, they would have somebody in the back hanging onto their toga whispering in their ear Memento Mori over and over. The idea is to remind them they are mortal and going to die eventually to stay humbled.
There are a couple of other basic tenants, such as understanding how things will happen practically and not just how you wish they would. No wishful thinking here. In general, Stoicism says that you see things as they are. It rides on the idea that if you are clear on what your chances are, you can have a better chance of affecting the outcome. I wish we could do more of the 'tell the universe what you want and get it back,' but we are more of the 'look at history and decide for yourself and what your chances are' type of podcast. Now, there's also a lot of meditating on interconnectedness and trying to pursue justice and virtue as well. I'm going to quote The Obstacle is the Way, which in itself is one of Marcus Aurelius’ ideas. If there's anything close to a stoic Bible, it's from Marcus Aurelius, who is from the late stoic period.
Our first real goal for this is to separate what is stoic versus what is optimistic. I think the best study about optimism was the Penn State study that they did with the US Military, and it was all about how optimistic thinking can make you tough. Optimism is a very good thing that can win you big in life. Stoicism looks like optimism. A lot of Stoicism can look like you're being realistically optimistic. When the POWs came back from the Hanoi Hilton with crazy low PTSD rates of 4%, many talked about optimism and making bonds while they were. Optimism works because it gives you hope and the empowerment to keep pushing against the odds. A true optimist thinks things are still going to work out. If being an optimist means you can look at a bad situation like you're under fire and still feel there is a way out, it puts you much farther ahead than somebody who says they are in the worst scenario and can't do anything about it.
To add a bit of perspective, according to Forbes, 64% of polled adult Americans were optimistic about the direction the country was heading right now. We're looking like an optimistic country in this moment. If America's full of optimists right now, can we even pull a Charlie Plump? If we're all feeling like things will be roses soon, do we even need Stoicism?
Myth Two: What's better, optimism or Stoicism? Why would we ever consider Stoicism if we can just be happier and expect better?
Joe: When we talk about POWs becoming stoics or using stoic techniques, have you thought about how you've become a stoic? Like, do you suddenly spawn stoic philosophies?
Todd: I think I do when things are going well because I know that a lot of things don't last. I think about what could go wrong and how it could end.
Joe: Okay? So, you do the part we mentioned of Stoicism where it's exploring the negatives that could happen and bracing yourself emotionally. In the Memento Mori part, you and I have both had a couple of health scares in our life. Has that changed the way you interact with people? Does it change the way you approach life, knowing that you came close to the end before?
Todd: It does, 100%. I sympathize more, and I am a little sweeter than I used to be with people. I also share more information with people because I don't see it as a sign of weakness like I used to do. What about you?
Joe: I read about cynicism when I was back in school. So, after a health scare, I came out being more cynical. The only thing that mattered to me was that I wouldn't be walking on this earth at some point, so I might as well be enjoying my time as much as possible. It almost made me a hedonist. But then I realized that is just cynicism. Not having values and abandoning things because you realize you're going to die is less helpful than adopting good values. A lot of Stoicism seems to be shrugging off things that will hold you back and getting rid of things that cloud your virtues and make you forget that you're going to eventually not be here - whereas other things that give you value, those seem to be important regardless.
We had had an episode back that featured an article on how cynicism can be good for you in doses. We found out that if you are cynical about things, you have a slightly more reliable marriage because you know to expect hard times, and you know that you're going to have to react to them. That same study talked about how optimists will often have bad marriages because they expect everything to be good. And if an argument happens, they think that the world has ended. They also said that cynics are higher earners and live longer lives.
The short answer to all of this is to avoid fooling yourself about your chances, which Stoicism seems to support. The idea of not fooling yourself about your chances and being radically realistic can be a good thing, but don't lose that optimistic side either, throw away values, or lose hope along the way. In all reality, you need a healthy balance of both. As an exercise, take something negative if you're in a bad position and make a sport out of controlling your mind and your reactions to what's happening.
Joe: Do you mind if we cover the toughness study by the University of Pennsylvania?
Todd: I remember this one. I wrote a speech about this one.
Joe: This is my absolute favorite as far as using a type of Stoicism to toughen you. It's a mix of Stoicism and optimism, but the University of Pennsylvania developed it, and it is in conjunction working with the US Military. They found out that mentally tough people who don't give up have a habit of interpreting setbacks as temporary, local, and changeable. Optimists think that a problem will go away quickly and just one situation that they can do something about. They avoid describing something as permanent and out of control. This was what Charlie Plumb and the others with him did.
Myth Three: Can modern stoics even exist? If Stoicism is such a great philosophy, why aren't there as many stoicism retreats as yoga retreats? Where is all the Stoicism now?
Joe: We found a little snippet on Reddit that talked about Charlie’s lectures. Would you mind reading that for us?
Todd: Charlie became kind of a motivational speaker. To promote himself, he went on Reddit and told people to ask him anything. Now, this is a question that was given up to Charlie: “I recall you mentioning the podcast. How, when in captivity, would a POW prepare to put on a seminar lecture to teach other captives about the same subject? I believe one guy did biology, for instance. What was the most fascinating thing you learned about during one of those lectures? Who gave the most engaging talk and why?
Joe: Most of the Reddit questions were all about asking what prison was like. I’m glad someone asked what was taught.
Todd: This was Charlie's answer: “Yes, that was me. Fellow POW, Joe M., was a biology student before he was shot down. He taught us everything from protozoa to metazoan and all things in between. Other guys taught calculus, French or Russian. The University of Maryland gave us credit for the courses we took without professors, textbooks, or PowerPoints. I taught a course in sailing. After we were repatriated, some of my students were amazed that they could sail on their own.
We want to get into the meat of the final argument now - can we be stoics today if we're not going to do prison time and we're not going to be tortured? How helpful is it to be a stoic? Can we use it? I think the stoic part I can use every day is carpe diem, the whole idea of seizing the day. It is recognizing that not everything is a big deal and reminding yourself that this is all very short and temporary. But that's tough to do sometimes. It's an easy thing to talk about until you have those feelings and emotions. In a Forbes article called Sorry Silicon Valley - Here's Why You Can't Actually Be A Stoic. The article focuses on taking the thing that's in your way and turning it into leverage. You take the thing holding you back and use it as a slingshot to catapult yourself forward. One example was when Thomas Edison's Factory was burning down. The factory starts burning down and shooting off crazy colors because it was full of chemicals. Instead of pulling out his hair, he tells his kids to get the neighbors and enjoy the amazing show.
Forbes also says we're using ancient teachings to leverage us to be more effective brand managers. It's not trying to be a better person; It's using Stoicism for a monetary reward, which Stoicism is there to remind you that you're not going to have a reward and will eventually be in the ground. So, instead of going after that corner office or using obstacles to lever yourself to a better position in life, it'd be better to focus on your connections and how you are doing. This article also says classic stoicism views obstacles not as moments of potential empowerment but simply as obstacles. If one is hungry and has no food, the stoic response will be to cease focusing on hunger, not opening a grocery store. In the end, I always thought of stoics as being cynical and being alone in life - being a lone wolf kind of person that doesn't need anybody. But it's the exact opposite. Stoics have a good sense of community, family, friends, and they leverage all that. After all, if your sports car or corner office aren't going to last, then the thing to focus on is…people.
Final Thoughts
Can Stoicism make you rich? Can using whatever standing between you and your promotion as a lever help make more money? Probably, but so can any other method of goal setting. In fact, the act of writing down your goals, planning, and executing them will increase your chance of success more than tenfold with or without Stoicism as your guiding philosophy.
Stoicism can see you through some painful trials in life, especially if you do like Charlie Plumb and work on what's within your power to change instead of fixating on the things beyond your control. Stoicism can also remind you to seize the day if you believe your days on this earth are limited. But Stoicism is not the ‘live, laugh, love’ of philosophy.
Memento Mori, the model of Stoicism, is to remind us that we are all mortal, and all things end. It’s an edgy phrase to hang in your office, but taken literally, nothing in your office building would mean anything. Because if you really contemplate your limited time on this earth whenever you sit at your desk, those time-wasting, quarterly reports will go right in the trash.
The same goes for any neat philosophy, new or ancient. If you're cherry-picking the parts that suit you, then it's not Stoicism. It's just you trying to make a rational plan and following through with it. And honestly, why let Stoicism take credit for your good work?